From AI Fear to Daily Habit: The 90-Day Playbook

00:00:06 Mark Smith
Welcome to the MVP show. My intention is that you listen to the stories of these MVP guests and are inspired to become an MVP and bring value to the world through your skills. If you have not checked it out already, I do a YouTube series called How to Become an MVP. The link is in the show notes. With that, Let's get on with the show. Welcome to the MVP Show. Today, I'm joined by Carina, coming to us from North Holland in the Netherlands. All the links for what we talk about today will be in the show notes. As always, Carina, welcome to the show.

00:00:48 Carina de Vries
Thank you for having me.

00:00:52 Mark Smith
It's fun to have you on. You seem to be working in a space that is top of mind for me, exciting for me. And so I always love getting guests on to learn from them. But before we start, tell me a bit about food, family and fun. What do they mean to you? Food, family and fun.

00:01:12 Carina de Vries
Probably that order as well, because food will bring my family together, of course. Well, food, okay, we'll skip that one. I can't cook. I'm an excellent host, but I can't cook. But we have a saying in Dutch, and I have it somewhere, a tile behind me, and it says, if you're a friend, you're always late. So I think I'm a good host, but I can't cook. So I'll get something. Or you can cook, of course, Mark, if that's your thing. But I do love to eat. So that's also something you can see currently. But OK, we'll skip that one, too. Family is my everything. And probably that's going to come back in my story later on. So that's already a cliffhanger. And fun. Well, I can't live without fun. So I always tell people, We can do a little bit more in humor or in connection. So it doesn't always have to be hard or dramatic. It can be light and fun as well. So that's really something that resonates with me.

00:02:28 Mark Smith
Tell me, what's been your AI journey?

00:02:32 Carina de Vries
Well, that's already a journey that started three years ago. Around this time, around this time, three years ago, I had a burnout in COVID. I had my own company and in COVID time, I had a team of six people. And during COVID, we lost a huge client. And that brought me in financial problems with my company. So around 2021, 2022, I had to let people go, had to stop my business, and I was already in adoption by that time. You would assume it would be at the, well, high ends of adoption since we all were trying to figure out how Microsoft Teams worked, but it wasn't. People were still paying attention to where the money went in organizations. So really had a problem. And then in 2023, I wanted to get back to work again after being a year at home. But I didn't have the headspace. So what I did was, what could help me get back to work in just an hour a day? So how can I get back to my work and do my thing again? And then I discovered ChatGPT. It was, I think, somewhere around the 3.4 announcement, so really a long time ago. And then I was hooked from the moment on because it was really helpful. And it helped me get back to work in just an hour a day. And nowadays, I can't live without it anymore. Of course, a fan of Copilot in the meanwhile. My presentations are with Gamma.app. I don't know if you know it. But if PowerPoint becomes that good as that app is, then for sure I will remain using AI for as long as I can live, probably. So it's a personal story that got me into AI.

00:04:41 Mark Smith
Yeah. Hey, that's very interesting that it helped you get back into work and get going. So fast forward to today. You've been working with AI now for three years. What's your day-to-day? What are you doing with it? How are you helping organizations? What's your job?

00:05:03 Carina de Vries
Well, there are two parts. So how do I use it in my daily job? Or what do I do to help customers? Which one would you like me to answer?

00:05:11 Mark Smith
You go with the first one first, then we'll follow with the second.

00:05:14 Carina de Vries
Okay. Well, I'm an adoption consultant, so I help organizations get the most out of their software usage. So what I currently mostly do is give advice, of course. So that's probably the most boring part of my job, writing those advices. And it's a long document, 20 pages. You probably picture that. And that's really not my best forte. So I ask AI and sometimes ChatGPT, sometimes Copy. It's kind of what works best for me. And then I ask for help me draw up an outline for an advice. help me summarize my meeting notes. And the more I got into this in my daily job, the smarter or productive I got with it. And also, that's one part, getting more productive. So get more done in less time. The other part is my quality. So the output that I gained with it has, well, I think, become better as well. Because I always ask my prompts to mirror me. So, Carina, you're an expert, but have you thought of this? That's always something that I ask in my prompts. I know I'm the expert on this topic, but I also want you to challenge me. And then I really think of my outputs did indeed become better. So that's an example, but I use it in my e-mail. I use it in combination of my conversations that I have with customers. I use it in a lot of tasks nowadays. And since I already use this now for three years, I really know what the best or a good way to start with AI is for organizations. Because, and that's what I do for organizations. I just sit with them and ask them, what do you want to get out of this tooling? Because it's just another tool, another tool in the toolbox. So what do you want it to deliver to you? So that's, if we got that question clear, then I'll help organizations with an advisement or set up a rollout plan or help them with an adoption plan or help them with the content of it. could be anything they want related to user adoption.

00:07:49 Mark Smith
Interesting. So tell me that that very first step. In fact, let me give you a use case that I've had a few times recently. Companies, let's say the sizing is about 25 to 30 people and they I'm hearing a story lately where they're going, hey, We've got Copilot licenses, but we're not using them, but we love Anthropic and we're using, you know, Excel and Anthropic together 'cause they're amazing. Or Excel and, or sorry, PowerPoint and Anthropic or using so Claude AI. And I'm seeing that conversation more. And then I'm asked, how do we convince our folks to use Copilot? because that's where we want as an organization really to sit with AI. So that's one case. I had another case this week, a meeting with a company, a thousand staff in this one, in the US, and they have got enterprise ChatGPT for everybody, and they've got M365 Copilot, full license for everybody as well. The ChatGPT licenses are being used and the Copilot licenses aren't being used. And the organization want to focus on a single product and they would like it to be Copilot because all their Microsoft ecosystem is rich with their datasets, et cetera. How do you have those type of conversations with your customers and how would you steer them to a Copilot world or why?

00:09:32 Carina de Vries
Okay, well, I think for this show, we should skip the question because I think users, listeners could also probably say, well, why do we need them to get to Copilot? So let's skip that conversation. So probably it's also a problem that we can't convince people to get to Copilot. So Most of the times I just say to people, well, we, as just like me, I started three years ago, I started testing it for myself in my personal life. So what you currently see is that people are testing AI tools since it's a hype, people are testing it themselves in their private lives. So people are used to a tool already. And it's like a consumerization approach that we currently have with AI. So people are using it in their daily lives. It's really easy. It's really simple. I have access to it. So why the fuss in my daily job? Why can't I use it like I do it in my personal life? Because I'm used to that. And that's the problem that we have is people are used to something already and Copilot. to be honest, wasn't that good today than it was a year ago, to be honest. So people were already testing with tools which are helpful for them. And now we're saying, okay, it's a year later, but you really have to believe me, Copilot is really good now. That's not working because people are already in a mindset that the current tool they're using is way much better than Copilot probably will be or is. So you have that image problem, so to say, of Copilot. And then there's the other problem, and that is the behavioral problem. So I'm used to something, and you want me to change, and you want me to change. See the difference? So you want me to use Copilot, but why would I do that? What's the benefit for me? And I think we talk too much about the tool instead of a daily problem a user can relate to. So what I usually do is help people have a helicopter view on this topic and say, okay, what's your aim? What would you like to do with it? What's your problem? What are you hoping that it will solve to you? And if you turn that table around and turn the story around, the funny thing is that if I tell people that Copilot will really help you because it can search through your current documents, instead of that I have to upload it to ChatGPT, which is going to save me a lot of time during a day and in a week that's probably half an hour or something. And it's way, way better because it will also say, I don't only see these documents, but I also see something related to this. Have you looked at that as well? So it's all, again, it's bringing me more quality than I imagined up front. So I really feel if we have to do something differently, we have to talk to people about why do you want to use AI, what's your current problem, and how will AI solve that for you. And then we have to show people, inspire people, show them these real use cases that will apply to their problem. And if you do that, then you, well, not in an instance, but along the way, people will see the benefit of stepping in the Copilot world. Is that helpful? Is it helpful?

00:13:21 Mark Smith 
It's good. No, that's really good. I like the idea of moving away from the tool and focus on what is it we're trying, you know, what do we need to do? I think that's super important.

00:13:34 Carina de Vries
And I had that conversation, exactly those two cases that you gave as an example. I had that last week with organizations that said, yeah, I can't move people for enterprise ChatGPT. Help me. What do I need to do? Because now I have two licenses and it's really expensive. OK, but again, this was the answer. Then he said, yeah, I think you have. Yeah, you've got me there, he said. So yeah, yeah.

00:14:04 Mark Smith
How do you? When you go into an organization that decides that they want to formally implement an adoption program, what's the journey you take upon? Like, what's the thing you've got to get right first to be able to step forward over the coming months to take people from, let's say, AI illiteracy to literacy and to it becoming a natural part of their daily rhythm?

00:14:32 Carina de Vries
Yeah, the funny thing is that you can We have Storyline, you have Copilot Chat, of course, that's the one that's already in your subscription. And then you have the M365 Copilot, which will add up in functionality. And then you have, of course, Copilot Studio. That's basically the layer of development that you could go through through these products. And the funny thing is, if you set your ambition, Accordingly to the app that you're licensed with, you will also see that your adoption program will change. Because if you have Copilot Chat, then of course you have to learn other things which are far more easy than if I tell you how to use M365 Copilot. Just like I said already earlier, most people are currently testing their AI tools at home. That's a cloud-native solution, kind of like how Copilot Chat works. So, and then, and so the first step that we do is make sure people understand what the cloud differences are. Why should we use Copilot? What's it going to benefit you? And people are really, especially since the news last week about the anthropic and Trump discussion, people are really worried that their information in in AI is probably going to be sent to America. So that's really something to take into account. What will happen with my data is really an issue. So that's the first thing that you're going to train people. How does it work? What's the storyline? How does the software work? How can you benefit from it? And then you'll see a gradually growing interest in the product. And that's also why I plead for more than just a one-off training. So what we currently see organizations do is have a prompt training, so to say, and then they're going to teach you how to prompt. And that's really something you need to do, no doubt about it. But it's not just that. You have to do more than that. And it's about building the habit. So you have to do something to let people build a habit. So what And that's also something, by the way, that you can now see on tech community. My Ignite talk about how my 90 days approach looks like is now available online so people can see that. That's really awesome. But in a nutshell, it's about setting up the guardrails that everything is safe and clean and your data stays in-house. And then the second part is building the habit in a small daily task. So I'll send you a tip on Monday, use this tip for this week and then at the end of the week, tell me did it work, yes or no? And if not, then I'm going to guide you in between. Second week, another tip, is this helpful, yes or no? On Friday, we'll know. And by the end of the 4th week, people have had multiple tips and Most of the times, there's always one tip or more that will help them. And then I'll ask them in the next 30 days, I'll ask them to sustain that one and to continue that thing that worked for another 30 days. Because if you can continue it another 30 days, then it's going to be a habit. And after a habit, there comes an agent. Because if it's a habit and you can multiply it every day, then we know as techies, That we can build an agent of it, and then it's the next step, and then we're going to the next step, and then we're going to find the next queue, a daily task, or something that's recurring that can help you with your daily productivity or daily quality improvements. So the thing is, make it small, because we tend to tell everything about the product all at once, and that's way too much. That's not what we want. people to build small habits, because we want them to use the tool. And if we... I don't know what the English word is, but in Dutch we say, if you flicker it all over the sphere, then it's not going to work. So dare to make it small. That's a real challenge because you and I, we all know that the tool can do so much, but dare to make a choice and aim just for one simple habit.

00:19:12 Mark Smith
I like it. I like it. That's powerful. What are you seeing, as in, do you have any standout stories from customers that have, you know, it's kind of like the light bulb has come on for them, you know, as individuals. Any stories that you can share?

00:19:32 Carina de Vries
Oh, yeah, lots of stories, but not all, to be honest, not all start like a lightning ball. Because people tend to be hesitant at first, or we call that even AI shameness. We also see people who are scared of AI. So I think that's the first one that we see is if people say, oh, I understand it now. I get a good feeling of it. I feel I've lost my nerves around this tool. I think that's really a lot that I see. And of course, people that say, oh, this is saving me so much time. The amount of quality that it's bringing me, like the example I just gave, you can upload a couple of documents because you think that would be a good starting point for your prompt. But then it says, hey, have you thought about these documents? Never thought about it. I didn't know we had that client with this similar story. So there are lots of those of-- really daily task or daily situations that people are really helpful with. And I even talked to someone today and he said, if my copilot license will be gone, I wouldn't know what to do because it's saving me so many hours a week. Yeah, I wouldn't be able to do my job anymore because of the time that it's consuming then. So lots of those little stories. Most of the times. Yeah.

00:21:12 Mark Smith
Well, Carina, our time is up. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate you sharing your insights.

00:21:18 Carina de Vries
Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you for having me again.

00:21:25 Mark Smith
Hey, thanks for listening. I'm your host, Business Application MVP Mark Smith, otherwise known as the nz365guy. If you like the show and want to be a supporter, Check out buymeacoffee.com/nz365guy. Thanks again and see you next time.