The 3 AI Mindsets Disrupting Tech Today

00:00:01 Mark Smith
Welcome to the ecosystem show. We're thrilled to have you with us. Here, we challenge traditional mindsets and explore innovative approaches to maximising the value of your software estate. You don't expect you to agree with everything, challenge us, share your thoughts and let's grow together. Now let's dive in. It's Showtime.

00:00:21 Mark Smith
Well, welcome back. It's just the two of us today. It's seems to hot of these days to get everybody in the same room because our schedules are becoming crazy busy. But we're back. I think the last time Andrew wasn't it before dynamics minds, I think that we were on air last. So it's it's a fair wee while ago.

00:00:39 Andrew Welch
Yeah, it was. It was before, before the conference, before, before my birthday. We wanna planned a a wild multi country birthday tour around around Europe and so. I I I wanna peg. But like it was probably around you know, mid, mid-May like like yeah May 19th or something like that. Yeah, yeah.

00:00:59 Mark Smith
Four weeks? Yeah. Really. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, well, it's changed. You went in a big ward at the at Dynamics Mines. I see.

00:01:06 Andrew Welch
I did. I did. That was it was. It was. That was lovely. It was, I think the title of the award was advocate for high quality standards or or something like that. It was really. It was really lovely to to be chosen for for that. You know, I'm not a Nice. I'm. I'm not a guy who lends. I don't think that my work always lends itself very well to awards a lot of times it happens sort of behind the scenes or in a, you know, in a place that there isn't an award category for. So it was it was. It. It was lovely, yeah.

00:01:47 Mark Smith
It was good. Once again. It was a fantastic event. It was interesting seeing so many of the community there big event, but I I don't know. There's a bit of momentum that's been building I suppose over the last couple of weeks. And my observations online. Around almost like camps being drawn up on peoples. Yeah, you know where they're staking out their territory in regards to AI. Yeah, I so. So I've been thinking about this. I've been thinking about this as well. And and in my in my mental model here, I really see.That there are. Are there's three camps and and, and maybe through this conversation, we'll we'll come up with more. But you know, real quick summary of of of my thinking on this is that one there is the there are the optimists you and I I think probably everyone who joins us on the on the show we are definitely in that optimist.

00:02:46 Andrew Welch
The optimists are we very much believe. I think that AI is the future, that AI, when done in a trustworthy and responsible way, is a force for good and for positive change. I don't think any of us would say that AI is is perfect or that individual vendors like Microsoft or you know, you know others. Apple, Apple has been far from perfect in how they've they've done the AI. They're ridiculously bad, but you. Know we're not. Apologists, I don't think, but I think we're overall. Pretty optimistic about it. The the second camp that I see and you know we can explore all of these is that there is the deniers, right? These are folks who I think that their general attitude is to. Stick their fingers in their ear and sort of, say, la, la, la, la, la and and and hope that it goes away. They're they're the folks that, you know, say ridiculous things like this is the Golden Age of business applications, which is one of the craziest things I've heard someone say in in a long time. And I'm. So so I I think that those folks are really they look at AI and they look at other technologies, other other edge technologies like you know, some of the more advanced data platform technologies and they say this is a way to shore up my use or my business around old technology, right. And then the third camp. And I don't. Have a name for this? Maybe you can, you know. Maybe we'll come up. With something here, these are the folks who are. Just they just seem angry about it. They seem mad. That, you know, this comes in in different forms. You get, you get, I think a lot of folks that some of the some of the things that I hear right or that you know they're mad that Microsoft is going in a new direction or they're mad that Microsoft is changing technology that they like.

00:04:45 Andrew Welch 
One of the strangest examples of this is someone who he wrote an article and published it. I think on LinkedIn recently on his blog that one of his criticisms was if you go to the Microsoft 365 homepage now, which you can get to at microsoft.cloud, that they got rid of the waffle. And they've now turned it into a. Link that says app. As if the the the visual representation of the button you have to click somehow create imposes a burden on you. So these folks in the in the the angry camp, they're just mad about everything and they seem I find them very tiresome.

00:05:26 Mark Smith
And particularly change, right? I mean changes like how many things have changed across like I started on on on like you know my first operating system. Yeah. Was DOS.

00:05:38 Andrew Welch
Right.

00:05:39 Mark Smith
If I got upset every time Microsoft changed something when they bought out Windows when they bought out Windows 95, etcetera, click, click, click, click all the way through mate, I'd never get any sleep. I'd lose my hair and and yet changes are constant. I mean, for me it's like more opportunity, I don't know. Every time I see change, I'm like, hey, people are gonna need help with this change. I can help.

00:06:01 Andrew Welch
You know, maybe I've said on this, maybe I've said on on the show before, but my my earliest. Sort of. The I would say that the earliest productive thing that I did on a computer other than just screwing around right was I wrote. I wrote a program, an inventory control. An app, an inventory control program that was stored on A5 and 1/4 inch floppy. Disk the wow. Kind that actually was. Floppy. Yeah, and. It ran on a 286 DOS. PC and the purpose of this thing was get this, the inventory that we were controlling were the supply of new fresh notebooks, pencils, erasers, etcetera. At my school. You know that that that were were were sold to kids that you know to students at at my at my school that was that was my first. Experience right?

00:06:59 Mark Smith
Do you know? Do you know that you have parallels with Bill Gates? Yeah. Because at his school his his first kind of big computer project that he did at school was something around managing the class rosters for his school. Yeah.

00:07:12 Andrew Welch
Really, that's why.

00:07:14 Mark Smith
He built a solution because it was taking his teachers forever to try and work out. You know the roster for which classes should be where and whatnot, and he. Create. And A and a a program that did it back in the day.

00:07:29 Andrew Welch
You know, that's really. That's interesting because one of my very first one of my very first jobs, my first job was in like like infrastructure networking, pulling wires, cables, building servers out of parts. But my I think was my second job. One of my very first jobs. Was I worked. For I worked for. A county Board of Education and this was before you had cots, you know, commercial off the shelf Edtech software to manage schools. And I built what today we would call it a a, a web portal actually, that sort of dates me today.

00:08:12 Andrew Welch 
You wouldn't call it a web portal, but some for probably most of. Last several decades, we. Would have called it a web portal. To to basically. Manage the operations of of a of a school or of a of a school district. So that's that's really that's that's. Yeah. Interesting. Really interesting.

00:08:30 Mark Smith

One thing one thing happened the week where we went to dynamics mines and that was billed was on that week and you know, Microsoft announced pair programming agents.

00:08:36 Andrew Welch
Yes.

00:08:41 Mark Smith
Mm-hmm. Right. Part of GitHub. Yeah. And it's kind of one of the goals of set myself is to become a expert vibe coder. And the reason I say that is that. I was just.

00:08:58 Andrew Welch
Spit my coffee all over my monitor. I don't know. Ohh. Kind of still freak.

00:09:03 Mark Smith
Freak out, right? But The thing is. The way I see things going. It's only a matter of time before you know if Microsoft's claiming right now, 20 to 30% of all their code is AI written. That's only going to excel. That number isn't going backwards. That's only. Going to continue. To climb for the organization, and I did a thought experiment while I was flying MY11 flight. I was on the 17 hours long so I had some time to contemplate.Was that after my? Was that after my birthday? Party mark. No, it was. I couldn't do anything after your birthday party.

00:09:45 Andrew Welch 
Mark learned a very valuable lesson. Do not take a long haul flight from Europe to to anywhere in the Pacific. If it's that long, you should not do it after after your friends, your friend's birthday party. That is a bad, bad idea.

00:09:58 Mark Smith
Yes. Yes. Thank goodness my wife was with me to to, you know, get me where I needed to get.

00:10:06 Andrew Welch
Unfortunately for or, unfortunately for her, yes.

00:10:09 Mark Smith
Yeah, fortunately for me, feticide is that I did this big thought experiment on the way there with AI. Around first of all I've got a library of over 300 business books and technical books. In the Kindle format. And I've been collecting these over years of of, of reading and.

00:10:35 Mark Smith 
There's often times an idea comes to my mind from I know something I've read over over over time and I want to just drill back into that little piece, but because AI doesn't have access to fully published books and a lot of that's not in the public domain. Then. I want to interrogate with AI this library of 300 books and so I started this process of going OK how so? The thought experiment was let's listen, I said. I've got access to Azure and I've got credit there. I've got GitHub copilot, a commercial version of it. So I've got my GitHub. I've got VS code on my desktop.

00:11:18 Mark Smith 
I can provide you all the credentials to all these things. Watch people freak out when when they hear you say that to the AI. What I would. Like to do. Is. Create a user using rag across these books. I want to vectorize chunked etcetera so that I can speed make sure that I am ingesting all that data and we need it in a format that is consumable and so you know we need to think about. Memory and when I purchased all the meta kind of data around it as. Well, how would we go about doing it? And of course it said, well, we can do this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I said, well, could you write me the code to ingest these books? And what storage would we put it in in Azure? And so as I built out and this was over hours chatting away as I built a multi agent system, I didn't build it, but I built the. Architecture of. And this would allow me to. I had one agent that was always monitoring security and always monitoring Microsoft for update in its security posture with its software and technology, and it would then proactively say, hey, I'm going to take you, let's say we had an encryption level of X&Y came out, it would sack a. The next 48 hours, we're gonna go to the wire, and we're gonna, you know, bring it all up to speed. And I had another agent that was monitoring my spend. So always spend optimization, storage optimization, tech optimization, code optimization going on and.

00:12:46 Andrew Welch

Hmm.

00:12:55 Mark Smith 
Of course it didn't then stop at books. I was like, well, I've been collecting all my data for the last 15 to 20 odd years. Can we ingest all that, too clean it up? I'll just. I'll. I'll give you all my medical records or my financial data, blah, blah blah blah. And so as I built this, this entire system out, I obviously was creating kind of like a second brain. For me and then I created a a redundancy protocol on it which was an offline version of the LM. I got it to spec the hardware about 8000 US for the hardware at a service architecture that would maintain its connections with online until something got pulled. That would have its, you know, backups running and I could run the entire thing without Internet access, but the full LM running localised it was a pretty high spec machine, something like it was maybe 8 terabyte of storage. It had something like 300 Meg of RAM. It was a grunty box, but what I realized is that I was architecting pieces with.

00:14:01 Andrew Welch
The phrase it was a it was a grunty box. Yeah, it is.

00:14:05 Mark Smith
Exactly. But like I wish, Chris.

00:14:07 Andrew Welch
Huntingford were here too, for a hot take on on that. Yeah.

00:14:09 Mark Smith
You're not there, right?

00:14:11 Mark Smith
The thing is, how would? How would I ever speck that or get someone else to do it if it wasn't just a hobby project that I could do my own time for myself, but I couldn't write that code? But of course what I've already realized. I've been able to rate pages and pages of code assisted with. I've been using two different agents for this. One is woo which is a plugin that you can get for VS code and the other one is GitHub copilot and it's phenomenal what they can do and the error correction and. This whole agent tasking and you know Microsoft already announced all those new features of.

00:14:48 Andrew Welch
Build.

00:14:49 Mark Smith 
But like, where is that going to be in one year, 2 years time? Like the advances in that space?

00:14:55 Andrew Welch 
Yeah, so, so I, I I do I. Think I want to. Come back. I think we should come back to, to build and I think we should come back to our our three camps as as well. But I I do want to explore this story a little bit that that you've told. First of all I I I love it.

00:15:05 Mark Smith
Yes.

00:15:15 Andrew Welch
I think I think it's so. Cool. But I I think that when. And when this this. Term vibe coding really kind of entered the entered the mainstream or at least the the the tech mainstream. First of all, it was not, it was not well under stood and it I think it immediately. It immediately got a bad I think it really sort of a bad play with it became a meme, right? But but my I think.

00:15:46 Mark Smith
Became a me.

00:15:52 Andrew Welch
My perspective on whether you call it vibe coding or you know whether you're talking about a specific technology like GitHub copilot, or whether you're talking about, excuse me, some of the you know, some of the the low code technologies like the the. The plan designer in in power platform. Now you know. This. So I'm broadly thinking of this entire genre of capabilities that allow one to build. Applications and we'll define that broadly, you know agents, Co pilots at you know, whatever it is that that allow people to build applications very quickly with the assistance of AI. It reminds me of. The transition that was made. In web development, right? So so I love, I love Squarespace, right? Squarespace is Squarespace is a great product when I've had, when I've when I've had blogs, I at this point I published my newsletter on LinkedIn because it's easier. But. You know what I've had. I had blogs. I've built them in Squarespace. I you know I I just think it's a great. It's a great tool. But I remember if I go back 20 some years, you know, 242324 years ago, right. And I I remember sitting there writing writing code for a website in notepad. Right on this was in that weird, brief period of my life between being a Mac user like most. Yeah, most of my life I've been a Mac user, but for a. Little while I was anyway. So so I would I would write. The code by hand for. Website in Notepad and I. Remember, there was there was an app that came out. It wasn't, it was. It might have. I I want to say it was Microsoft publisher, but it could have been something Microsoft may have had a different name for it.

00:18:00 Mark Smith 
That a product called. Front page that a product front.

00:18:03 Andrew Welch 
Front page front page it was and I. I remember when front page came out and I thought it was dumb because by the way it it, it produced horrible like it it just was not good. Right. And I thought it was really dumb. And I also thought and and you know, people I knew, you know, I think anyone would have agreed with me, right, that it was it was. It was lame. It was, you know, for people who don't know what they're doing. Right. And then then. Dreamweaver, do you remember Macromedia? Dreamweaver. Loved, loved.

00:18:34 Mark Smith
Yeah, man. Oh. Yeah. Remember it was first released before Adobe purchased. Yeah. Yeah. For maybe. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, I. Media was cool back then.

00:18:44 Andrew Welch 
The the Macromedia before Adobe purchased it, the two that I remember just loving were dreamweaver and fireworks, yeah.

00:18:52 Mark Smith
They were ahead of their time. They were amazing bits of text. It just worked.

00:18:56 Andrew Welch
They were amazing and you know, I remember in in fireworks. You could you could. Build a graphic right and if you wanted that bitmap to have code sitting, you know to have have be somehow interactive clickable links whatever in the bitmap. Yeah.

00:19:10 Mark Smith
Yep.

00:19:13 Andrew Welch
Fireworks would generate that code for you. And you could then. Just drop it in to Dreamweaver, but Dreamweaver allowed you to write. You you to to write your markup in for your web page, right? And as you went along, you would see what you have visual representation of what you were writing. And I remember thinking at. The time now, that's. Interesting. I failed to see how that is somehow. Worse or more lame than writing it in Notepad. It helps me go faster. Yeah, it's not as. As many years later, my friend, our friend Keith Watling would call canvas apps clicky, clicky, draggy, droppy. It's not that it's not front page, right? So I started using Dreamweaver, and you know, then I took. I took a long, many years break from doing any, you know, I I just focused on other things. Right from doing anything like this at all. But Fast forward to today's era and you don't hear people. You don't hear people talking about how Squarespace is stupid, right? Or Squarespace. In fact, there's an entire there's an entire community of professionals who design. In websites in Squarespace, and are paid for this, right? So I overlay that. I think that that's an interesting sort of parallel to to vibe coding again, whatever you want to call it, right? Vibe coding is right now in the front page.

00:20:31 Mark Smith 
Yeah. Yeah.

00:20:50 Andrew Welch
Dreamweaver. Era where I think you I I see a lot of developers talking about how stupid it is and about how it's low quality and it's it's, you know whatever it is and they want to go back to Notepad. But the answer I find in technology is very rarely that we need to go back to the way we used to do it. It's that we need to go forward to doing the. New thing in a better way?

00:21:14 Mark Smith
Yeah, I used to do everything in WordPress, right? Because I love to be able to control the plugins and stuff and then, you know, I switched probably three years ago to Squarespace. As well, because I'm like, I just want to actually get something published out there. I don't want to waste my time dicking around with did I update the plugins or was that plugging out of date or or whatever had changed that stopped my form working on the way? I don't wanna care about that. I just wanna sign up. That works and I think we're still on that bridge. Kind of people that know the old way and. Like I've I've used a designer recently and they're like, oh, why are we doing this in WordPress? Because they like that old way and they haven't moved forward with and for them they just see new the new technology platforms, restrictive. I can't do what I used to do, but they actually do everything so much faster, quicker, smarter, better and of course some people say well, it's not really better cuz you don't have the control. But I. Don't need the control. It gets the page out there, it gets me engaged with my audience. That's what I needed.

00:22:15 Andrew Welch
I have this debate a similar debate. With people all the time and and have for many years and and I'll I'll tell you about it. A a chat that I had with, with, with our friend will but but but first the the debate this is the this is the age-old debate between not. I'm not talking about about. Normal sort. Of average consumers from a technical perspective, I'm talking about people who kind of know who at least kind of know, yeah, what's happening right. And it's it's the debate about are you a Mac user or are you a windows or I'm not going to say windows because, you know, you could be a Linux user as well. Like, are you a Mac user? Are you Mac or you PC, right? One of my very, very best friends, John John is a physician. At the University of of Virginia, we've known each other for for many years. John, to this day, he says to me that well, he he's a PC user because he wants to be able to install his own RAM like he wants to be able to. Do and and I'm like.

00:23:29 Mark Smith
It's not time yet. 

00:23:30 Andrew Welch 
Bro for for first of all first of all your pediatric. Allergist like what possibly are you doing that requires you to be able to install your own chips? Yeah, in inside of your of your desktop. PC. Yeah. But you know more broadly and this will get me to the chat that I had with will, right, I am a, you know and and and and listen I think you know anyone who knows anyone who listens to this show knows that I love Microsoft. I love Microsoft technology. But when it comes to. The devices that I use, I have a MacBook. I have an iPhone and I have an iPad. And I love them because I don't. I I I just. They're just a lovely experience, right. And I don't think much. I don't. Yeah, I don't think much about it. And they all work together. And it's, and this is an age-old debate. So so will will and I are talking. We're talking a couple of weeks.

00:24:22 Mark Smith
 That is worth.

00:24:34 Andrew Welch
Back. And Will was asking me about my use of of AI. You know, AI technologies. What is it that I use? And I told him he was really surprised to know that probably 90% of my use of AI. Is, you know, sort of my my daily use of AI happens through copilot. Right now I definitely gravitate. I I almost never use the the consumer, the personal version of copilot. I use M365 copilot that we have through cloud lighthouse, right? I I like having my conversation history all in one place. I don't need to think like. Did I do that in the the? Business version or the the personal version?

00:25:26 Mark Smith
Would not touch, you know. Version. It sucks.

00:25:29 Andrew Welch
Yeah, yeah. You know, so so we'll. Ask me some questions cause I you know, I think. Listen, I think it's pretty well documented that a copilot, copilot is does not often does not provide the quality of answers and responses that that catch BT does. For example, yeah. But my case is that. One copilot is usually good enough, right? Two copilot is getting a ton of investment and has, you know, from from Microsoft. I'm a big believer in the principle of follow following the money. Right. Like, look at where the Microsofts of the world are investing even if it's. Yeah.

00:26:04 Mark Smith
Totally. Hence the same.

00:26:13 Andrew Welch
Like, really not all that great when? It first comes out. It will be right? Yeah. And three, it's just less mental load for me to sit and think one well, which one should I use to do this? Fairly low level task? Yeah. And then also, which one did I use a week ago to do it? Because now I want to go back and.

00:26:18 Mark Smith 
Yeah.

00:26:39 Andrew Welch
And access that that conversation or or that thing or that thing that it.

00:26:42 Mark Smith
Yeah, yeah.

00:26:43 Andrew Welch
That it produced. And I think now that my my patients, I've been very, very patient with copilot. I feel like my patience is paying is paying off, right. Yeah. Around the time of build, this agent, this copilot agent called researcher rolled out in full. So we all have that now. Do you have a license? A A license for M365 copilot go to microsoft.cloud. You'll see under agents on the left, there's this thing called researcher. That thing is phenomenal, right?

00:27:17 Mark Smith
Isn't.

00:27:18 Andrew Welch
It is so I feel very vindicated by my decision to really just double down on copilot, get through some of the ********, because now I feel like I feel like Microsoft is really on a roll.

00:27:30 Mark Smith
Roll. Yeah. Mike brought up something really interesting at a few weeks ago. And and it was actually a discussion she was having with Steve would do of all things.

00:27:42 Andrew Welch
But you know what, you know. What I really like, Steve Moore, do like I'm always so happy to see him. He's such a good guy, yeah.

00:27:51 Mark Smith
And and it was a discussion around, you know which API you used and stuff, and often you'll hear people bad Malvern AI that they don't use like ohh copilot. As useless, there's nowhere near as good as XYZ. You know out there, and my wife, you know, she's married to me. So she has a similar sense of humor. She was like. Well, it's like when you build a relationship with somebody kind of, you know. How to communicate right? The longer you have a relationship, you know their style, their technique and that type of thing and what you're doing is go having a one night stand with copilot and saying ah, doesn't get me doesn't understand me. Ohh useless, you know and. Yeah. One, you've invested a long relationship in one you've flirted with on the side and made a judgment call. You know, and I was like, it's it's an interesting metaphor to illustrate the more and like what you're seeing to yourself, the more you invest in that tool, the more you become fluent in it and can get what you need from that kind of those, those experiments that you run with it. It's interesting.

00:29:07 Andrew Welch
Yeah. Yeah, I I think I think that's, I think that's true. So I'm curious and and I have my answer, but I'm going. To ask you. First, what is what is? An AI tool that you have used recently. That or, you know, maybe over the last six months or so that you've been particularly disappointed with?

00:29:31 Mark Smith
I can answer that from today.

00:29:34 Andrew Welch
From today. OK, what is an AI tool that you've used today that you've been particularly disappointed with?

00:29:41 Mark Smith
So one of the things that copilot doesn't have is a voice experience experience at the moment, in other words. I can have a conversation on audio only, no keyboard input, and so I went out to my greenhouse to do something. And of course I've got gloves on while I'm working, so I just hit the audio version so I can have a conversation backwards and forwards.

00:30:01 Andrew Welch
Mm-hmm.

00:30:06 Mark Smith
And it was. I was. Thinking about something as a that I've been working on at my computer, which is I needed to raise a support ticket for this particular website and I said can you find the exact mural for me to raise a ticket and instead are you go to blahblahblah.com/support and you'll find there all the options that you have available. You said. No, I've been there. I don't wanna hunt and find they've they've they've hidden their phone number. They've hidden their ability to find chat or anything. They've always like 5000 knowledge based articles that you need to get through before you can raise a ticket to support. And it was like, OK, I'll, I'll give you the exact URL. Here's the URL blah blah blah.com forward slash. Port forward slash. Ask your question and I'm like what? Ask your question. No, no. When you said no, when you get there, you'll be able to see the options that you have. I'm like, you just pointed me to the same ******* place I just was. And I know it's not there. You're making it up. And so that was copilot on on. Sorry, that wasn't copilot. That was ChatGPT. The latest build on audio. And it is so fluffy around ohh. You might find that uses this language. And like I I grew up, you know, my first major career was in the medical industry and in the medical industry.

00:31:21 Andrew Welch
Hmm.

00:31:34 Mark Smith
When we had to interpret standards, there are keywords that you look for in the standards. The keyword was may. This environment may have the setting which gave you some roof to work, or it said should you, if it said should that it absolutely there was no deviation. If it said the air temperature in an operating theatre at the wound site needed to be, you know, 23°C. It would have must, right? And you would look for these words because they were tell tales of whether you had any scope of movement. And what I've noticed in a lot of the audio based chat, they give themselves lots of scope for movement. They use fluffy language, they don't commit to an exact. And I'm like, no, I'm wanting you to save me time. Not assume something which should be where it should be.

00:32:28 Andrew Welch
Mark, maybe that I mean is as you say that I'm I'm thinking to myself well maybe maybe the audio, the audio capability are trained by the British right, who are famous for, you know. Ohh well. Well, it may when, when, when, when an English. When an English person says. That something may be what they mean is you will do this, right? Yeah. This is in British English, may it means. Yeah. Should or will. Right. And and for the rest of us trying to interpret that is is like just. That that was one of the most difficult things about living about living and working in in the UK was trying to understand what exactly you're telling me, like, how important is the thing that you are downplaying, right?

00:33:18 Mark Smith
Now back to the original. Thing just before we go though you, you came up with opportunistic, you know then there's the. The the. Angry. And then there's the what was the other one? You caught it? Something starting with?

00:33:29 Andrew Welch
D The optimists, optimist deniers and and we need a word. We need a word for for the third yeah.

00:33:34 Mark Smith
Yeah. Angry, angry. Angry ******. Right, let's. Just call them up.

00:33:42 Andrew Welch
I I this is we need we need to do. We need what? When we if we can get a couple of the others. Yeah. Next time we have a couple of the others on the show. I I want to I I think we should do a show where we explore those 3 attitudes and approaches. I love it. And we we really stick with it, with it through the the episode. I I will say my big disappointment in AI recently has been the meta AI built into WhatsApp because I think that Meta has and, you know, still has an opportunity because WhatsApp is on so. Billions of phones, right. Meta has an opportunity to pipe its AI capabilities into WhatsApp from a user experience perspective, but I I I have just found that it absolutely false. It absolutely falls flat. It was. It was a major disaster.

00:34:36 Mark Smith
It just made a $14 billion a I purchase this week, one of the biggest it's I think it's the biggest purchase meter has ever made because it behind in the 8 ball. Sorry in the April race in the AI race so a massive massive investment this week. And it's interesting because those 3.

00:34:46 Andrew Welch
The. Yeah. Dressing.

00:34:56 Mark Smith
Things I actually can talk about, the three, those three from what's actually happened across all the LM's in the market in the last week and the predictions from Google who are predicting that. Super Intelligence is not gonna come to just after 20-30 to Dario Emmerdale saying that it's here in 2026 and and Sam Altman's right with him, that it's here and people like, you know, Apple just came out this last week saying, you know, with the paper showing it's dumb. And then a it's code. Sorry, open AI bought out a model called O3 Pro. And all the tests that Apple had run to say I didn't reason it just smashed them one after the other destroyed.

00:35:39 Andrew Welch
It This apple White paper and we need to we. Need to come. Back to that Apple White paper when we talk about the three camps because one of the things that cracked me up right was were these were the the the angry.

00:35:43 Mark Smith
Yes.

00:35:52 Andrew Welch
The angry camp jumped on and and actually the deniers, the the denialists as well. These folks jumped on this Apple White paper as proof for like see. I told you this is stupid. Yeah, we're gonna. Everything is gonna go back to the way it was and it it just. Again, I find it tiresome, but they know we need to run, so we'll come back to it. Alright. See you, mark.

00:36:12 Mark Smith
That's that's, that's for another. Show you're talking to Andrew Chow.

00:36:16 Mark Smith
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