The Golden Age of Creativity with AI

Meg Smith (00:11)
Welcome to the AI Advantage. I'm Meg Smith. I'm here with Mark. And today we're talking about creativity and AI. And we're going to answer the main question I think that everyone's been asking is, will AI take your job? Mark, what's the answer to that question? Good, I kind of threw that at you. But I agree, I don't think so. You know, we keep seeing this being the topic of conversation, the binary question.

Mark Smith (00:26)
Absolutely not. Simply.

Meg Smith (00:38)
that I see it on LinkedIn, see it in news articles now. And I think it's a dangerous binary because it forces you to say yes or no. Rather than this whole acknowledgement of a spectrum of change that is coming for us with AI. Everything is gonna change. 

Mark Smith (00:54)
everything is going to change and I just think it opens up so many opportunities. It's going to allow us to step into a level of creativity like we've never known and I think the reason for that is that we're going to have time to be able to be creative rather than always working on getting stuff done or getting shit done right you're going to have space to think and and create at the end of the day and was interesting, I had a guy on a podcast a couple of weeks ago who invented a piece of software that blew up globally because they called it cheating AI cheating software. It's basically a layer agent that runs on your screen. It intercepts your camera feed, your audio feed, whatever you're doing on the keyboard and it gives you answers. And so he used it in an interview and maybe with Amazon and totally blasted through and got employed.
 
I'm talking about AWS, actually I can't remember what it was. Anyhow, he's in San Francisco. And I said, well, what are we going to do with all this free time, know, if agents going to take everything? He said, we're going to have time to spend with people and be creative and contemplate and think. I was like, and this guy was 21, 21 years old. And I'm like, he's thinking like that. I'm like, this is awesome.
 
I can lean into this idea. I would quite happily make money without it needing to be something I had to work for. In other words, that my time was free to be creative rather than just make money.

Meg Smith (02:22) When you came off that conversation out of your office or out of your studio for that conversation and you said that to me, I had this like penny drop moment because it's a concept we've talked about a little bit, which is redefining wealth. And so it made me think if that was the goal that I'm going to, you know, make this, ⁓ you know, have this financial success so that I can have time for creativity.

Then if I agree with that, which I do, I'm like, that sounds amazing. Why don't I bring the creativity forward into my day now and go, and I'm already wealthy today if I can take half an hour, you know, an hour to do something like he gave those examples of spending time with people, but also ⁓ crafting and baking and things like that. it kind of was a reminder to me to go, hey, there's...

Mark Smith (02:53)
Mmm.

Meg Smith (03:12)
things that you can make time for in your life now, even if it's a small amount and kind of take that version of wealth back. And we've been watching a YouTube series from a ⁓ Dutch Belgian couple who have moved to Italy and bought an abandoned farmhouse and are slowly restoring it. And I think he's a woodworker or a turner fitter, a cabinet maker.

And they are beautifully telling this story in a very slow and intentional way about how they're restoring. And we've started watching that and that has then led us to do things like get the paints out with the kids or spend more time in the greenhouse planting seeds, which honestly this year has kind of fell away as workers got really busy. We've stopped doing those things even though they're very accessible for us. And so I loved that conversation with him because it

It made me realize, if creativity is the goal, how can I bring it back into my life as a habit and as a practice today? And I think today's topic of creativity and AI is really topical because it touches on what I love us to discuss, which is some of these myths about AI and...

Mark Smith (04:10)
Yeah, I like that.

Meg Smith (04:23)
There is certainly a school of thought that says, ⁓ we don't have to be creative anymore. Or especially for people who labor over, have labored over creative arts and outputs and have, you know, had that stolen by the large language model training and everything. There's, there's a way to go in our mindset of let's just stop creating. But I would really encourage and agitate towards the, can we create in a different way?

And it's so important to keep creating because that's what we do as humans.

So Mark, can you bring up, there was a conversation ⁓ that it was on LinkedIn that actually was about four months ago. A friend of mine saw Neil deGrasse Tyson speaking at a conference. My friend Nissa Waters, she is an ex Googler as well and she runs a company ⁓ called Possible AI here in New Zealand doing awesome things. She went to this event, I think it was PAX 8 in the States about four months ago and she saw Neil deGrasse Tyson on stage and.

I think I saw this right at the moment where I was hearing a lot of that kind of dialogue about, you know, basically creativity is dead thanks to AI. And so I just loved this take and this is maybe a little bit, we'll talk about it in a sec. I'll read out what she's quoted him as saying here. I'd also encourage you to go, there's actually quite a few interviews with Neil deGrasse Tyson talking about AI. ⁓ But I also really wanted to point out that when you're hearing narratives about something,

Go to the people and the voices that you trust, not just because of what you know about them now, but who they've been for you in the past. And Neil deGrasse Tyson is one of those like legends of my life, of so many people that I know have really been interested in his sort of takes ⁓ on the scientific community and scientific approach. And he's got this really accessible way about talking about some of the topics that can sometimes by design feel out of reach or a bit too lofty for people like me who are not particularly scientifically minded. So there's three quotes we're gonna share here. So the first one is on human creativity and AI. When you dream, you have thoughts you've never had before. And those thoughts are not yet on the internet. So ChatGPT has no access to that. And that might sound a little bit obvious, but the thing that hit me in the chest when I read that was can keep thinking whatever I want. That's the beauty of being a human. can keep being expansive in your thinking and as you learn and create new pathways in your brain, your ability to ⁓ understand new things and learn new things and apply them in new ways is infinite. And then he talks about on AI's creative limitations. So he talks about how you can tell AI to draw a scene in the style of Van Gogh, but could AI
 
I have come up with impressionism or cubism or abstract art. I don't think so. AI still needs humans. And then the last one here really, like I've kind of taken this to heart since then. So thank you so much, Nissa, for sharing this, you know, four months ago. The golden opportunity ahead, AI will force us all to up our game, to be more creative than we've ever been before, to think outside of the AI box, which is bounded by what's on the internet and other things that it's trained on, right?
 
And he says, I think we will enter an era where creativity will be the golden age.
 
And this, like our topic today really is to say.
 
How, if that was your attitude in engaging with AI, how does that change how you think about creating? And I know Mark, you've done lots of creative projects with the help of ChatTPT, with the help of Copilot, with the help of Claude. What have you found in your creative process? How has it changed bringing AI into it?

Mark Smith (07:56)
For me it's about widening my sphere of a particular subject and so if I wanted to get into a subject and explore it and remember creativity can take many different forms. I feel I'm being creative when I'm selecting a range of flower seeds that I'm going to plant because it delights my daughter to be able to pick flowers.

and you know working with the seasons and what to pick and so I will often use AI in the conversation for example I want to create this like piece of our property which is like a wildflower meadow but I want it to be seeds that are flowers that go to seed and therefore sow their seed again and over and over and over again this little meadow that I'm creating for her will always have

you know, beautiful wild flowers growing in it. And so I can then, you know, work with AI around what I'm wanting to create there in that example. And so what are the seeds that we'll produce regularly? And then do I have the right color mix and what kind of color mix do I want? I can use AI to go backwards and forwards with it. Now, what was my alternative to that?

you know, without AI I would have to perhaps gone to the internet and looked up and done the research that way where I was able to say, hey, she's really into the colors of the rainbow. Give me a rainbow based mix of plants or flowers that fit this, that will fit my climate. All the different parameters allow me to create that kind of experience. And then.

when I look at it in my writing is that I'll often have a concept that I really want to drill into and I have the spark of a concept that I've been thinking about and you know I start to get that reinforcement bias and then I start seeing it everywhere I see it on the internet I see it in the books I read I see it in you know comments on LinkedIn

And so I'm like, okay, I really need to now go deeper and research this topic. And so as part of my creative process, I will go into a research phase, which I really want to research and unpack this and go, okay, what are the elements of this that are practical? Because I always look at everything that I do through a very practical lens. you know, I've said this before, I'm more for exploring skill rather than knowledge.

Developing my personal skills rather than just extending my knowledge and becoming knowledgeable on a topic and so that kind of creative processes forces me into exploring

how I bring whatever concept I'm working on into a skill, into a habit, into behavior that I can repeat over and over again.

Meg Smith (10:41)
And it's the application of that, right? So you use ChatGPT or another AI tool to help you do that scan almost of the information that's available. But I know you also have books that you'd have to sit down, you know, get magazines that are coming every month. And then we also are talking all the time, our neighbor grows incredibly beautiful flowers, right? So we're talking about like,

what did you like, what do you love? And so it's this bringing together of all those pieces of information, it's not just one. And then you go out and you actually plant and go, that species didn't work here in our climate or in this season. We just had quite a few of those, where we planted them and they were like, they haven't germinated, it must've been too late in the season here. And that combination of inputs coming in forms your view.

Mark Smith (11:26)
And the the

This whole concept of creativity is that I and my skill set in the past would never be considered a coder or a developer. Sure, knew HTML, XHTML, I knew enough around CSS and JavaScript and things like that, but I wouldn't say I was a developer by any stretch. But what I've now been able to step into is that I have a sense of what looks good. When it comes to things like brands and stuff and

⁓ I have a concept in my mind that I want to bring to life. And in the past that would have cost me thousands of dollars because and backwards and forwards with a creative designer and things like that. If you take a look at the logo for the podcast, the Microsoft Innovation podcast, I created that logo myself with AI, right? Now,

Just to give you an idea, the podcast has been running over eight years. And I've had multiple iterations of the cover art of the show change over time. And I've literally paid thousands of dollars to have designers do that work for me. Now, I've had the creative concept always, like what I wanted. I just didn't know how to use the software to lay it out. You know, whether that be something like Adobe Illustrator or Photoshop or whatever it may be. Now,

I do have that software and even though I don't know how to use it, like a proficient desktop creative or someone a graphic designer with that software, I still have the concepts and the ideas in my brain that I can now talk into reality and with that software. And so the latest design is totally my creation.

the brand, the look, the feel, the color scheme, everything is like what I had kind of seen in my mind's eye, but I was able to bring it to life using AI. But I didn't use it entirely because the layup and everything has actually not been done with AI. But an element, which is the head form that I wanted, that was 100 % created via AI and how I wanted it to look and feel.

And the concept I want to illustrate in that design. And so I'm using it, you know, as a that was, you know, graphic design example. I've given you a garden example. Another one would be now is I'm starting to get into vibe coding. And for all you serious coders out there, you know, shock and awe, I believe it's probably going to be the future. Most software will be vibe coded and particularly for those people that don't have software development skills and

I don't want to go out and learn C or C++ or C sharp or any other Python whatever. I don't have time and I don't see the value there in me learning it at this point in my career. But can I come up with creative ideas? I'm looking on a building right now, an entirely new website where I won't use a CMS, a content management systems like a WordPress or a Squarespace.

I'm going to craft it end to end. And deploy it in Azure where I will. I know what I want. I know what good looks like and yes, I know enough about security to make sure I put the security elements in place into my design, but I will produce that website. Where I haven't needed to use external resources outside of AI.

and doing that within VS Code. know, two years ago I would never have been in VS Code. Now I'm in it, I can use it, I can use it enough that hey, the site that I'm gonna put up is not going to be a mission critical website or anything like that, but I'm still able to create that, me working hand in hand with AI and turn that into reality far beyond what was ever possible before.

Meg Smith (15:14)
It's interesting as well because I think the scenarios you've talked about, are, you're approaching them with the point of view of you know what you want the outcome to be and you're pushing your own skillset further with the help of AI. And at the same time as, in the same time period that you did that with the logo, we also paid different designers. think we paid three or four different designers to do work on different logo creations, our book cover.

So those were kinds of things where we did assess, we want AI to, do we want to do this with AI? And then for different reasons, really valid reasons, we said, no, not in this scenario, it's not the right thing. And so the thing being that if I was a graphic designer or if I'm thinking of the service that I provide, the biggest thing that besides your own skillset getting better and going deeper with of what a designer can do with AI is far and away above

what I could do to design anything with AI because they already have the skillset. But the next piece to think about too is who are you creating for? Because Mark might not be your customer, but there's a whole huge number of customers that still need someone to help them get to the vision of what they're trying to achieve. Cause I mean, we've talked about this before. One of your superpowers, and I think it's comes from the dyslexic thinking.

is you can visualize in 3D, you can see in 3D. And this was never more apparent to us, the difference in the way that we visualize as when we're in this empty barn that Mark is saying, I've designed this. He converted this empty shed into a house for us during COVID. And he's like, okay, this is where the kitchen is gonna be and it's gonna be this big. And this is where my studio is gonna be. And this is where that, and I'm just standing there in this empty shed going, okay, yeah, I believe you. I can't see it, but I believe you. But you literally could see it. And so,

It's this whole thing of keep getting really curious about who your customer is. How are they changing? How are they hitting up against some limits of AI? They might've tried to do it with it, but how can you bring all your expertise and all your knowledge to go, hey, this is the value that I provide and I complete. it's about, and in Te Ao Māori, have this concept of our mana, right? Our life.

force and our belief in ourselves. And so if you can be working with people from a place of, know, your mana is intact. So you're not threatened by them learning or them changing. And if you can engage with them in a way that leaves their mana intact, so you're not trying to belittle them for trying something new, you're able to work together and say, Hey, we're learning together here. This is all the information and the experience that I bring. I'm really interested because you probably come at it from a non-coder.

our non-designer coming at it from a very different point of view, what can we create together here with the help of AI? And that's where you get into the like human AI teams, right? The hybrid teams, which we talk about in this like frontier firm or frontier organization of it's the combination of these things together.

Mark Smith (18:10)
Yeah, and you know, as I say, everything's about developing skill. so I didn't just wake up and was able to prompt that logo into reality. There was a period of time that as the software like Mid Journey was progressing, I had a subscription to it. I was trying, I was testing my visual creative design skills. And so I didn't just wake up and am able to do this. And so

My suggestion is to you is go out if you're if you haven't done prompting that creates imagery or video or image elements, go and practice, practice, practice and refine what you do and look at what great people are doing because there's so much content out there now showing how people do it. You know, my mate Steve Mordu, he creates these talking head videos that look pretty similar to him and voice synthesizing, etc. And he's doing things that he wouldn't have been able to do before without this tool set, but he's getting more more practice. He's refining what he is doing all the time. And so whatever the kind of creative skill that you want to lean into, it is never a better time to one, help AI to help you learn the skill as in, you know, work with AI to help you learn the creative skill. Or, you know, it could be poetry that you want to get into use AI to help you understand poetry, how poetry works, the influence of different poets, read their material and then find your own style in that. And AI can be massively assistive in that process. No matter what the creative area is for you, you could use AI to either be involved in teaching you, co-creating with you.

but really going beyond and tapping into those things that, for me, personally, if I look at what my biggest stifle of creativity is, is time. Is that if I'm working to make money because I need to live and supply my family and be a contributor to society, if that's the main thing, which for most of us is 40 plus hours of our working week, we have to look at how we carve our other time.

And then I'm hoping that as AI does, you know, take more of the drudge work away and that we're compensated though for that it's going to create more time for us to spend in creativity. But I'm not going to wait for them. Like Meg said before, I want to get started now.

Meg Smith (20:33)
I like that you said that about the different ways that people create as well, because for me, I'm a writer and I've, I wrote a book, like, I still find it weird to say I'm a writer, but I'm a writer, right? And the biggest things that have stood in my way though, have been the fear of getting it wrong. And every writer will tell you that it's practice, that you have to practice every day. And yet it was the blank page, the on the computer, on my notebook, that would stop me from writing or for a particular project. know, and AI for me has helped me become a writer that can start any time because I'm happy to, I think it's also something that girls are socialized to do. There are studies that show that girls are socialized in the classroom to ask or comment only when they know the answer 100%.

And so that's why often we see ⁓ studies show that girls stop participating in science, maths, technology subjects, if they're not given a space where they are encouraged to say an answer even if the thought isn't fully formed or to not be afraid to get it wrong. And I'm still a product of a generation where, you know, I feel like I have to get whatever I'm writing. And a lot of the writing that I've done with the help of AI has been of a particular structure.

that is unfamiliar to me. So a governance CV, example. when I was first applying for my first role on a board, I had the benefit of a mentor, Paul, who gave me his CV as a starting point, but I find it really hard to talk about myself. find it, you know, now I have a podcast, so I'm fine with that now. But I was like, what do I say? I'm not good at anything is the first thought that comes to my head.

when I'm sitting at that blank page trying to put my name on it and try and put my achievements into it. So it was amazingly helpful to use AI to say, hey, here's my regular resume, my regular CV. Here's a governance CV template I'm trying to put my skills into. Help me draw it out. And then you go through this process of, actually, that doesn't sound like me at all.

⁓ I'll change it this way, but now I've got a spark and now I can run with that. And instead of sitting there and I would, it's the kind of task I would put to the bottom of my to-do list. It would be on my to-do list for three weeks because I don't know how to start without getting it right. So that's the kind of writing that I've found AI helps me do. And then in other ways, because I've now got that habit and it's easier for me to start, there are areas where I write now where I don't touch AI at all. ⁓ one of the things that I do.

weekly for us and we have a newsletter that goes out called Tech Trailblazers. And I write that entirely. I don't use AI. I don't even, I don't even grammarly it. I don't even look at it because I'm like, this is a, this is meant to be me talking to, I have particular people who I know are on that list and I write for them and they'd forgive me a full stop in the wrong place because if I'm getting clear on my message, that's the most important thing in that scenario. So it's this whole thing too where.

how you create, AI can both help you in the actual output, can actually help you in the process too, if the output is something you don't actually want to use AI for.

Mark Smith (23:36)
Well, I hope you've enjoyed this podcast. Please feel free to join our WhatsApp group. I'll put the code on screen. It'll be in the show notes. We'd love to hear how you are using AI from a creativity point of view. Either comment on the YouTube video or in the post. Remember, if you're listening to the podcast, there's a video version of it. It's on YouTube and Spotify. We love your feedback. We love keep getting it in the WhatsApp group each week. Thank you so much for joining us.