Why Copilot Fails Without This One Strategy

Mark Smith
Welcome to the power platform show. Thanks for joining me today. I hope today's guests and Spires and educates you on the possibilities of the Microsoft Power platform now. Let's get on with the show. In this episode, we'll be focusing on copilot insights, ROI adoption, all those great things that are top of mind for so many organisations right now. Today's guest is from Bristol and the United Kingdom. She works at A&S Group as the ecosystem architect for copilot. I just checked her LinkedIn and that seems to have changed. So let's validate that at the moment she has a real life experience in rolling out copilot 4M365. And a good mix of being a techie and a people person and knowing those the nuances that combine those together in your mind, links to a bio and socials in the show notes for this episode. Welcome. To the show, Vicki.

Vicki Holman
Hello. Hello everyone.

Mark Smith
Good to have you on and I'm keen to, you know, talk to a guru on copilot and and, you know, cause what copilot? About two months ago, a month ago or six weeks, whatever it was, it had its first birthday. So it's a massively new, you know, technology. Area and everybody's scrambling to get up to speed, but before we go there, food, family and fun, what do they mean to you?

Vicki Holman
 OK, so family. I've got two kids, got 12 year old son and a 10 year old daughter and a very loving supporting partner and a dog, a spaniel. So all pretty crazy in terms of fun. I like to be outside as much as possible. Mountain biking, swimming, surfing. Running, although we do do a bit of knitting as well of an evening on the sofa. Nurse. Yeah, and. Good. I was thinking about this and do you know what if you put? Anything on like? A small plate and suddenly interested in it, you know, like little sharing plates and things. And I think that's because I get fomos. So if I've got a meal and someone else has got a different meal, I'm like, hang on a second. Yeah. What's going on over there? So we've you've got like, small plates and sharing.

Mark Smith
Yeah.

Vicki Holman
Matters you don't get. That kind of problem, don't know.

Mark Smith
I love it. I love it. No, no, that's so good. You gonna miss out? That's I love that. I love that.

Vicki Holman
What that says about me?

Mark Smith
Tell me about your tech career. How did you? How did you get to where you are?

Vicki Holman
So I don't think it was. I never saw went through school or growing up thinking, oh, do you know what? Uh, IT that's the that's the path for me. But I think possibly that's the case for many of women, certainly of my generation. So it got to a point I think I was around about 20 and I just started work on an IT service. And just find it quite interesting and went from there sort of self studying, moving up through the various support tiers and then specializing more in messaging areas. So exchange and you know back in the day doing a few sort of latest exchange migrations and all that that fun stuff.

Mark Smith
Wow. Wow.

Vicki Holman
And and then you know, Link 2010 and all that that kind of crazy goodness. And then so that was just purely technical and then. Maybe four years ago or so, I moved into more of a management role, but then was still involved in technical side. So I think that's where it, you know, my sort of technical and people skills have come together and then now I'm I'm back in more of a technical role but using. By people skills, it's it's, I think a lot of people are users of speaking to people who. Come to resource development backgrounds and things like that, but. Mine is quite a sort of traditional infrastructure career path that I've come through.

Mark Smith
Right, right. And you're currently at? A&S or Burgess salmon.

Vicki Holman
A&S.

Mark Smith
ANS gotcha. I just saw in your profile you had Burgess Salmon, so I was just like Oh yeah.

Vicki Holman
Do I and Africa, like I did, work at purchaser and a Cup 2 jobs ago?

Mark Smith
Yeah. Infrastructure engineer Burgess Salmon is your most recent experience after.

Vicki Holman
Oh, really, that's the problem. I need to go and look at that then cause no.

Mark Smith
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. All good, all good, all good. So that's why I was like, huh? I mean, but the same has been on my radar quite a bit lately and. So I was like, oh, tell. Us about copilot and I suppose I'll preface this with I've had visibility across a range of copilot implementations around the world in the work I do with Microsoft, and there's been some great success stories. And then there's been some not so great success stories like I'm thinking of a scenario here, 300 seats deployed and within a couple of months I said let's take those out cause nobody's using. And underlying that was no adoption strategy whatsoever. IT had them switched on and was like, oh, I was using them. Let's get rid of them and and every time I see that scenario, it's been that we turned it on and nobody used it. And therefore, we turned it off. I want it turned off. Tell me about what you've seen. In the trenches around organisations and you don't need to mention who they are, but that have gone through that process and of implementing. Let's just talk about M365 copilot at this.

Vicki Holman
Yeah. So I think as you've touched on there, I think the organizational change management aspect is absolutely key. M365 copilot isn't a tool that you have to use to do your job. It's not like, oh, I've got a new. CRM tool or? A new service desk tool that you. Literally have to use. It's something that. You should use if you've got it, cause it can be massively helpful, but there's no you're not aware of what it can do and you don't therefore have that sort of that want to use it. It's not. It's just not gonna happen. People are busy, they're not gonna. They're not gonna take it upon themselves to go away and say, right? What's this? What can it do? How can I save? Time and and be more productive. You need to have that sort of top level change filtering down through the business for them to understand. What it is that that copilot? Could do for them. Otherwise you just don't know, do you? You know you. You know, I've. I've seen organizations who've rolled it out. And, you know, I think most people know that one of the easy wins is obviously meeting recordings. You know, you'll just be able to transcribe your meetings and then recap you.

Mark Smith
Yeah.

Vicki Holman
Give your actions. I spoke to. Someone at an organization they, you know, they were like ohh, you know, it's just not very good unless you know what? What's the problem with it? And that individual didn't even know that they had to be recording the meeting. That meeting had to be transcribed in order to be able to use copilot. Yeah. So it's that sort of very fundamental understanding that people are sometimes. Lacking if they don't have that change management piece in place, and obviously you know your traditional learning and development can pick up some of that. But I think because it's a a change in ways of. Looking and changing culture. Really it does need a bit more than that. It needs your stakeholders. It needs the message to be coming down from top that this is such a great opportunity for people and it's there to help them, not replace them, not do their jobs for them, but but to make their jobs more enjoyable.

Mark Smith
Yeah. Yeah. In the conversations with CTO's, I've observed this. Listen, if we just make people more productive, let's say we save them an hour a day and now they're spending another hour around the water cooler. How is that benefiting my organization? You know, it's kind of like it's almost like M365 in its history. If you look at it, we're sold on productivity, right, productivity was product and and what I've noticed is that people when talking about AI and and and executive decision makers, they're not interested in the productivity story.

Vicki Holman
Yeah. No.

Mark Smith
As part of what copilot brings to the table.

Vicki Holman
Yeah, I mean it, it's really, really difficult to have these conversations because like you say, it's the whole are they spending an hour around the water cooler they logged off early to watch Netflix and all that kind of thing. And and also you know, are they saving an hour? Is that going back into my bottom line? Well, no, it's not, is it, but I think. It's going back to that idea of it being a cultural change. You know, you have to, you have to trust the people you hire for a start to to be doing their jobs rather than worrying about them. Using time saved to not be productive, but to be honest I'm I'm a great believer of if they're spending an hour around the water coolers, I'd like to be an hour, but so be it. They're having those conversations, those interactions that thinking time, that's gonna help them be more creative and think more strategically, their well beings gonna be better. All that kind of thing, I think it's it's wrong to think about just driving it all back into productivity and the bottom line it's it's about change. Thing people's experience in the workplace, making it it joyful. I think it, you know it can. It can really change how you feel about work and just change. It just changes your day-to-day so much. I mean I I love it. I'm a I'm a copilot power user. I can. You know I can put in like I can it can save me. You know a couple of hours a day. Easily and now I'm not sitting there putting that those two hours straight back into work, I might actually. Me. Yeah. Go and walk the dog. Shock hurrah or something like that. But that will make me a better person at work tomorrow, you know.

Mark Smith
Totally. Totally. And we're dealing with the world, particularly after COVID of overwork, right? Yeah. People doing way beyond their mouth because they're nothing else to do. Right. And. And so to give people back their life that's, you know, not necessarily absolutely a bad thing. Now, 2 hours a day, productivity gains by yourself. Kind of. And that's more than just summarizing meetings. I take it.

Vicki Holman
No, exactly it. And it will depend or depend what I'm working on at a time. But at the moment I'm doing quite a lot of content creation and it's honestly about about two hours a day just in, in helping me think through ideas and and it's almost it's a bit like having a coworker cause where we're all working remotely now. And previously you'd be sort of sat in an office, you'd have your colleagues around. You might turn around and go, oh, do you know, what do you think about? This what do? You reckon? Have a look at this and although we do still collaborate, it's different, but I I do honestly speak to copilot as if. Where a A colleague now and it just helps me think through ideas and come up with suggestions. It doesn't do the work for me, but it just helps me when I'm struggling to think of a starting point or somewhere to go or or just finessing something.

Mark Smith
And are you thinking through your fingers or are you using audio?

Vicki Holman
Ginger.

Mark Smith
Yeah, interesting. Interesting. It's just. Yeah. It's interesting to see the way people are interacting with it more. Tell me about you've used it obviously in a brainstorming or aspiring partner kind of concept there. Any kind of edge things that you've used it for that you're like, oh, I didn't think of that. That's quite cool. Like, it could be personal, even as in an in your personal life rather than your. You know your. Career and I'll give you an example. I grow plants. I have a greenhouse and I sell lots of seeds and I like. I love trying new things and I don't know the optimal way to propagate those seeds and so I will put my phone up on the shelf and I'll put on. In this case. The GPT with voice. And I've got gloves on and I'm doing what I'm doing and I'll just read out the name of the seed packet that I have and I'll say what's the optimal way to plant this and seed trace for optimal germination and. It will give. Me the detailed breakdown. Then it'll be quiet and like and I can hear that. And I'm like. Oh, this one needs a bit of. You know a little bit of sand over the top as all this one needs to be. You know sun stratified. So therefore I need to leave it on the surface or this one needs to be about 5 mil below with dirt over the top like. And I was like, I didn't even think that I could use that. I, like kind of voice interaction to totally change something. I'm doing out my greenhouse and. It was brilliant. You know, my success rate on all those seeds were much higher because I was doing individual things for each different seed group. Yeah, by using that kind of interaction.

Vicki Holman
Yeah. No, that's, yeah, I, I get what, saying I I to be honest, I think I need to get better at using it outside work. I use it heavily in work and then. Barely used outside. Interesting, but what I have used it for, which isn't, it's not an edge case. It's not that niche, but just do quizzes and things like that for the kids. Little things like that, just for them to, you know, a bit of extra mum homework makes me hugely popular.

Mark Smith
Interest. Yeah.

Mark Smith 
Very, very cool.

Mark Smith
I have a friend and she for her. Last year, wrote a book through the year, with the daughter being the protagonist in in the stories, and then she used mid journey to design the images for each of the pages. Then she sent it to a printer and had it that book given to her at Christmas.

Vicki Holman
Amazing.

Mark Smith
And it's a four story book where the daughters, the protagonist, and the pitches are all relevant to the content of the story, but all done by AI. Just one copy. Just. Your daughter.

Vicki Holman
Yeah. I mean, it's incredible, isn't it? And I think people need to realize what whether you think, you know M365 Copilots any good or not on people's opinions differ. AI is coming. You know, you can't just turn off to it and be like, well, it's not, it's not really going to happen. It's not going to impact me. It's. It it's going to impact everyone.

Mark Smith
In the projects you've been involved in, Hargreaves Lansdown might have been one. I know you've been on on others what have been some of the success metrics that have come out of implementing copilot or or the stories you know that have come from the trenches?

Vicki Holman
Yeah. So obviously the the key success metric that people want to hear is time saved and then you know what you're doing with that time you're doing. However, many more engagements etcetera, that kind of thing. But for me, what's been incredible is the story around accessibility. So people with perhaps dyslexia or any kind of neurodivergence is an absolute game. Singer and you know, I've had people say this has changed my life, which is incredible. You know, people who've had who struggle with auditory processing and meeting. So they've had to record them anyway and then sort of play them back super slowly afterwards and little bits to try and take the content in. And those days are all. All gone. It levels the playing field. They said. They feel that they're able to work, you know, on a level playing field with everyone. House and work feels like a good place for them to be now, and that's, you know, that's incredibly powerful, really powerful. You know, it changed my life. That's, you know, it doesn't get better than.

Mark Smith
Yeah, I know, right. Yeah. Yes.

Vicki Holman
That does it. Yeah. So for me, that's the key success. It doesn't fit into a a neat tidy metric unfortunately, which is what people are looking for, but but you know if if you've. Give an employee a tool that changes their life. They're unlikely to leave you so.

Mark Smith
Exactly, exactly. And are you seeing anything where where people are becoming super users of it like yourself? How would how would you even define a super user with copilot?

Vicki Holman
I think for myself, and I saw the change as. Well, where I think copilot first. I think when you first or certainly for myself and where I see the sort of like the initial engagements, you get copilot and then you're going about your work and everything. I could use copilot for that or maybe I should have done that with copilot. But then when you start thinking copilot. First, I think that's when it starts to. Really, sort of. Impact the amount that you use it. So I I I say that I'm a CPU user, I think that's in term. Of the amount of the amount I use it basically and and then perhaps the amount of time it saves, but also I guess I use it in quite a broad spectrum of areas, so not just so I mean you I think you can make make the time up on it just doing the meeting recording and transcription. Not, you know, I think you've already, you know, shown its value there. But you know, if you're using it across all the different areas, it can really add value there.

Mark Smith
Tell me about implementations. Yeah. You know, we know it connects to the Microsoft graph and therefore it makes available if you're like, resources that have been sitting on the network for ages. But people might just not know where to look or find them, etcetera. Data sets particularly I'm thinking of PII relations. You know, data that has been sitting in plain sight. That nobody knew how to access it because it's just. You know, I I commonly use a scenario of someone being onboarded to a business and someone sets up a Microsoft form and in that Microsoft form they say who's your next of kin and you know, you put your spouses name, contact details, personal e-mail address, phone number, that type all, you know, Rich API. Data and you forget about it. You've been on boarded, you don't go back there. You don't think about it again. Maybe in your HR system that got translated in there at some point, but that's sitting unencrypted in the network for Stalker, Barry to go and.

Vicki Holman
Find stalker, Barry. We'll know one.

Vicki Holman
Yeah. So I think that's that's so common and it's scary and I think organizations know that it's scary, but don't necessarily know how to deal with it. And I think. The trouble? One of the problems I see is I think people see that purview. OK, well, let's let's turn on purview and all our problems will be solved, and that's not necessarily the case. It's not. I was thinking I I. Sometimes like to blame purview, but actually I think it's probably more of a people problem. Because I think the thing about purview is it needs quite a lot of configuration to actually to actually give any value to to provide.

Mark Smith
100%. Yeah.

Vicki Holman
You know proper alerting, not just random noise, for you to actually be able to see through all the alerts, what's actually going on. It needs so much configuration. There's so much thought. And not only that, it also needs like the organizational policies behind it. You can't just make up what you're doing in purview. If the if the organization doesn't have.

Vicki Holman
It's. Sort of data life cycling policies and understanding who owns the data, who the data stewards are, who's validating that data, do they? Review the data then. Purview is not really going to do anything for you, and also I think people think Ohh we'll turn purview on all be good, but then purview's not really gonna do much of your underlying permission structure is no. Well like if if people are overly permissively sharing content out of their OneDrive or SharePoint sites. And then you know, it doesn't matter what you do with purview if someones got access to it, they've got access to. But and and that's the thing you know with the semantic index that massively powerful search functionality, people are gonna find things that they never would have found before. And obviously that really adds to the value because it's so much easier to find things than than it used to be. But then obviously it adds that risk as well that people are coming out against at the moment.

Mark Smith
Yeah, so true, so true. We talked about adoption. How is adoption really? How do you when we go into a new project inside an organization, how do you take them on an adoption journey and are you using formal processes like processor as part of that adoption journey and how do you tailor? To raise the AI literacy. Of everybody, I've I've been saying for a while, if we could raise the a literacy by 30% of every organization, it will transform that organization beyond belief because then we're not saying the literacy of how the to use coping. I'm saying, hey, I literacy is also you have a mindset of like you talked about before I go, I explore it with copilot. 1st I go and I I run an idea through. You start thinking differently when you go hey. I've got this little helper that can be my aspiring partner and so therefore how is that going to help me unlock new ideas I might have, but I'm gonna use my sparring partner to help me unlock those ideas.

Vicki Holman
Yeah, yeah. So adoption is obviously really, really important. And you know, I'm familiar with Prosi and I think it's really great model. I think sometimes depending on the organization, they don't. Have the roles necessary to fully commit to that. I like to follow that general concept and I think when it comes to adoption, probably sort of business champions. Are absolutely key and I think if you identify those people in the first instance who are sort of keen use of technology who are keen to learn new things. And like engaging with other people and bring them on the journey. Then they start to sort of bring other people on the journey with them.

Vicki Holman
In terms of. Increasing AI literacy, and I mean, I really love a good prompt us on like you know, scenario workshops, all these come things that move away from sort of the traditional.

Mark Smith
Nice, nice.

Vicki Holman
Learning and development side of things that you know they're a bit more interactive. People can bounce ideas off each other a bit more collaborative, that kind of thing. And I think you will start to see people perhaps. Having some AI type things and that they're traditional learning and development. You know the stuff that you have to do. When you join. A company, your health and safety. Your IT stuff. Then you know, I think perhaps we will see something around AI coming in there just to make sure that people have sort of a base level of understanding. But I mean I'm I'm. A big fan of sort of people working together and bouncing ideas off each other and and that's a great way to great way to learn. I think prompt us on to probably one of the. These ones.

Mark Smith
What is the prompt with them? How? Does it work so?

Vicki Holman
If people work together in groups, that's the best. Way to do. It and you give them a problem to solve using copilot or AI AI of your choice and and you know, thinking about what prompts that they might use. So you give them a little sort of run down on the best ways to prompt. And things to think about. And then sort of, they can go away and try and solve that problem using whichever AI tools you want to give them. And and as they go through, you know it's it's it's really great to watch with people first, like, right. OK well, how are we going to do this? And then you see the ideas start to evolve as they as they work together and and get the hang of pumped in and start to get more out of copilot or whichever tool you're using.

Mark Smith
Yeah. And what is it typically an hour long at a day session? How how does it run and kind of what's the follow up model for a prompt of a fun event happens?

Vicki Holman
Yeah. So typically you'd have one running for a day really, but I've done them for for sort of half a day, a bit of a mini prompters on. So I think you can sort of you can adjust them slightly, but I think the longer you have, the more the more you can get out a bit and and then you can spend a bit more time sort.

Mark Smith
Yep. MHM.

Vicki Holman
Of going into. How to get more out of the prompting and how the tools work and and looking at the problem and what the output might be and that kind of thing. But yeah, I think a day a day, half a day to a day is probably probably what you need.

Mark Smith
Nice and tools that the individual needs. Let's say it's copilot is. Do they just need copilot access? And you're.

Vicki Holman
OK. Good to go. Yeah. So I think ideally each individual would have a copilot licence. I have run them before where one person in the group has a copilot license and then you know the other person's asking them and they just. But it's a lot better, you know, once this once you've got your guard rails and security in place, but it's a lot better with sort of live data. It doesn't really work in sort of the test environment where you don't actually have any data to. Pull back from.

Mark Smith
Yeah. So when you say live data, so you're talking about on an organisations infrastructure. So they've got their own assets. Yeah, yeah. Brilliant. Brilliant. Tell me about loop, Microsoft Loop. And I asked that because if you look at the pages functionality of copilot, right, it's a loop component if I'm not mistaken in in how it runs. And so we've seen.

Vicki Holman
Yeah, yeah.

Mark Smith
Loop bubble to the surface and of course being used. Now for use cases outside of just copilot. But is that something you're using much? Is it something you make people aware of and how it works and what are your thoughts?

Vicki Holman
It's so funny. We've had big conversations just sort of internally around loop just because a lot of people was like, I don't get it. Like what what we're doing with it and I kind I try and use it, I do try and like right. I can't really. I'm gonna really use loop today and. It doesn't necessarily. Work out. I'll start off or drawing club or have a table or share it around with people. It will all be exciting and then it. I feel I feel bad for loop now, but it was interesting. I was doing some workshops for that you have to do towards the copilot readiness DW 100 and 101 recently and there is a lot of loop content in there. So and I you know I think. Ohh, I don't know, it seems like quite niche scenarios. You know. I. Never. I never sort of come into work. And think ohh yeah, I'm just gonna crack on and. Use loop now. Sorry loop.

Mark Smith
What's funny? What's funny is that is that out, out in the non Microsoft community, there's a product out there called notion that is used massively, right? And I was being part of a start up incubator in New Zealand and we all got given access to notion, which is one of the first big. Uses of AI built into notion by default, and a lot of people just expels its greatness. Fact just had a public house go live this week from a guy in Australia who uses notion to run all his projects. He is big in the ERP side of, you know, dynamics. And he loves the way notion keeps all the artifacts from pre sale to well past implementation. What I see in in my experience of working with notion is that it is that loop is very similar to it. And allow for this kind of live documents, like an old wiki in the old days, you know?

Vicki Holman
I think maybe if you if you had a number of people. Committed to using it. I think if you're using it on your own, it kind of loses its value, so maybe I'll do something. I'll do some mandatory loop usage at work. Just force. People to be like, that's it. Using loop all week.

Mark Smith
So are you are you using the pages functionality which which is designed for collaboration often with copilot? Inside a team of people.

Vicki Holman
Not hugely at the moment, not a lot of the people or some of the people I collaborate don't actually have copilot licences. So yeah.

Mark Smith
Right. Right. Makes it difficult. Yeah. So I I am finding that in another network I am on, there's the haves and the.

Vicki Holman
Have nots. Yeah, I'm a have.

Mark Smith
You know, and even like in the teams meeting, right, if you don't have the the transcription enabled and and and the recording happens. And then I was interesting. I was on a call the other day that we discussed a whole bunch of stuff which was being processed by AI, and then I was like, ah, we need to go and scrub that because what we discussed was about a specific individual inside the team, and we don't them discovering that necessarily, no. Well, nothing was bad. It's just that it doesn't need to be discovered. So therefore, how do you go and scrub? Stuff that you know that was for a point in time conversation. It doesn't need to persist anywhere.

Vicki Holman
Yeah, that's the thing, isn't it? We you do have to think about that slightly. I think people worry about sort of the small talk in meetings being recorded. So I I don't really. I don't really have a problem with. I think you just get used to it.

Mark Smith
Mm-hmm.

Vicki Holman
You know? OK, we'll come and we'll start the meeting. We'll chat about the, you know, what we did at the weekend, and that's fine. It's. Not a problem, yeah. People are allowed to do that. We'll certainly should raise.

Mark Smith
Yes, totally.

Vicki Holman
But yeah, then there is that. But you may have said something, you know, not necessarily derogatory, but you may have said something you didn't necessarily want someone else to hear. So yeah, you do, you do have to think like that.

Mark Smith
I I feel in the Western world we have a perception of a greater degree of privacy than what we have. Yeah. And, you know, I went to China and in China as as in for a period of time, I had a guide taking me on the Great Wall. Of China and. And we're 100K outside of Beijing in this total remote area and. He goes you Westerners have this concept of. Privacy we've built up with the there's no such thing like. That's not a word to us, right? And as the conversation developed, I realize is that I think the Westerner culture has a more perceived level of privacy than they have privacy. I mean, the court case just got settled this week with Apple, where Apple is a. Admitted that it is always listening, it is you. The mic is on, it is listening and it is selling your data to advertisers and that's why. People go ohh. My gosh, how did all of a sudden I get mad about that and Facebook, that's Facebook doing it these guys through this device where we think well, we didn't hit the record button. It's not listening. Yeah. Don't you know you know? And that's the crazy thing. I think that we we delude ourselves sometimes at the level of privacy that we have, that gives us a warm blanket feel and but it doesn't exist. Vicky, it's been so interesting talking to you. If organisations are considering copilot and going down that journey of potentially going all of pop, you know adoption of copilot, what are some key things? That they need to get right from the get go. Success.

Vicki Holman
So guard rails obviously make sure that they know what's going on with their data, so whether that be the technical guard, rails, or organizational policies around them and just having some kind of organizational change management or adoption, it doesn't have to be full process. I you know, I've done it without that. You need to have people on board who are going to be business champions who are who are gonna get excited about copilot, who are gonna gonna infuse that excitement into other members of the organization. I don't know why I suddenly thought this. I had a conversation with someone at an event and I'd actually worked with him previously and he was now working at a different place, obviously. So am I. And he said he's he's gonna roll out copilot at his new place in stealth mode. He's still gonna just gonna. Just gonna turn it on. And he thinks that's that's the way to do it. And I, you know, we had a debate and I said I didn't think. That would work. He said he'd let me know. I'm still still waiting to hear, but I think that's absolutely not the waste that you people have to understand how to use it and what benefits they they can get. And you know, perhaps need to be.

Mark Smith
100%.

Vicki Holman
Reminded to use it initially, you know for 10 minutes every day, play around with copilot just until it starts becoming a habit for you because it is a changing way of working.

Mark Smith
I like it. Stealth mode absolutely does not work as I am. There's there's now data show it showing it.

Vicki Holman
Yeah. Well, we'll. See, maybe you know you might message me and say.

Mark Smith
I have a slide in a presentation I do and I'm I'm doing an education on this topic and and in this slide I bring. Up a Google. Search box and then an AI search box and of course they look identical right? As in apart from some. Prettiness and niceties. They look very similar, and so there's been this issue. I just noticed my Google Home is recording everything I'm doing as I'm talking. It's just give it a signal to shut up. I notice. That people have confused doing a Google query or a search engine query with how they interact with AI. Yeah, and it's it's not. It's totally different. And I said, so if you just let people mercifully find out and they're not a curious or not a, you know, an explorer or not a somebody that wants to drill in. They are going to write questions expecting explicit answers and not a conversation when the answer is not what they want, they're going to say this instinct. This doesn't work. That type of thing. And there was a university professor at one of the large universities in the US and he said, and to his students, he was like, I want you to imagine, like C3PO sitting on your monitor and it's not a person, but it's a, it's like a humanoid technology PC. You can have a dialogue with it is part and it has a conversation and you need to switch from Q&A.

Vicki Holman
Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Smith
Two conversation. We're going to iterate on our conversation. We're gonna change it. Like after we'll prompt and go. You know what? I'm gonna prompt it better and often stop by. You know, it's starting to take off and do cause. I'm like, I didn't like how I asked that question. I know it wasn't the best way to ask. It and so.

Vicki Holman
Yeah. Copilot, you've got it wrong as well. I do that. Sometimes, and I love it when it comes back and goes. Yeah. Sorry. My mistake, Vicky. I'll try again.

Mark Smith
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So good. So good. Vicky, thank you so much for coming on the. Show it's been a pleasure. No worries.

Vicki Holman
Thank you for having me.

Mark Smith
Hey, thanks for listening. I'm your host business application MVP, Mark Smith, otherwise known as the NZ 365 Guy. If there's a guest you would like to see on the show, please message me on LinkedIn. If you want to be a supporter of the show, please check out buy me a coffee.com/NZ 365 guy. Stay safe out there and shoot for the stars.